I made the most interesting discovery this weekend. Several times on this blog, I’ve commented about a pastor we had awhile back who said some of the most unhelpful — and actually quite hurtful — things to us in the midst of all the trials our family’s experienced the last few years. If you’ve read this blog for awhile, you may remember my post about the pastor who said that all fear is sin and the pastor (same guy) who commented about how I must not be a Christian because he didn’t see “joy” in my life (he equated joy with happiness).
One thing that was very confusing to me was that the man seemed to be a wise, Biblically sound, intelligent man. But then when we’d talk with him for some pastoral advice/counsel in the midst of the horrific things that were happening in our lives, he’d do and say the stupidest things that just didn’t seem to line up with his pulpit persona. I’ve only mentioned two of the unhelpful things he did here … there were lots more!
To keep a long story fairly short, I discovered on Saturday while researching something else, that pastors can purchase complete sermons and other church service materials (music, overheads, dramas, videos, handouts, etc.) from Willow Creek Community Church.
While my oldest daughter and I were browsing through the lists of sermons available for purchase, she suddenly pointed at the computer screen and said, “Wait! I remember hearing that sermon series!”
It turns out that almost every sermon we’d ever heard that particular pastor preach was something he’d purchased from Willow Creek. And there we had sat, week after week, so impressed with his pastoral gifting … but instead, he was just an excellent, dynamic public speaker who was delivering someone else’s sermon!
The sermon’s from Willow Creek come with everything laid out word-for-word … even jokes and funny stories. So other than a few personal stories that the pastor would share about his family, the entire thing was a sermon from Willow Creek.
It seems that it would’ve been more honest if they would’ve just set up a big television screen in the front of the church and then simulcast the worship service from Willow Creek. At least we would’ve been getting the teaching first-hand from the church where it orginated rather than all of us sitting there thinking, “Wow, we have the most awesome pastor!” The pulpit ministry at our church was actually the pulpit ministry of Willow Creek. But the pastoral ministry of a pastor “helping” his church in the day-to-day things of life was from someone who could put on a good show and nothing more.
My daughter was good friends with the church secretary and the secretary didn’t even know he was buying sermons. She had a big discussion with my daughter one day about how impressed she was with his abilities to come up with creative sermon series after creative sermon series. We all thought he was spending hours and hours pouring over the Bible each week to prepare these awesome messages. But in reality, all he was doing to prepare for the sermon on Sunday was just practicing speaking from his notes. Well, I guess techincally he wasn’t even practicing with his notes but with Willow Creek’s notes.
No wonder whenever we sought his counsel, it was unbiblical, unwise and bordering on being just plain mean. The man in the pulpit was essentially just a talking puppet that was speaking from someone else’s knowledge and wisdom.
The church even sold tapes and CD’s of the messages each week … with “by M____ __________” printed right there on the label. Well, the sermon might have been read aloud by M___ , but it certainly wasn’t his sermon that he wrote or researched or came up with on his own.
Anyway, all that to basically say that it explains so much that we went through at that church. The “pastor” wasn’t a gifted Bible teacher … he was simply a good public speaker. He wasn’t a knowledgable man with pastoral wisdom … he was just a dynamic person with a flare for the dramatic.
It’s nice to finally understand the contradictions in his ministry. It explains so much. Give me a real pastor anyday rather than a Pastor in a Box.
I think we were attending a McChurch back then. 
Fast Forward Three Years
A long time and many ups and downs have gone on, but jumping ahead, here’s another update on our family’s continuing saga:
http://dsimple.wordpress.com/2010/07/15/hes-moved-on-now-what/
i never knew that about buyin sermons n stuff…good post…be bless… -g-
Hi Debi.. I wandered over through some friends sites. Our pastor talked about this new phenomenon a few weeks ago, the purchasability of sermons. It was, (and is) quite disturbing that someone who has no real need of a Biblical education (’cause they can buy one), is leading God’s sheep, especially the wounded ones. I assume from the tone of your post that you no longer attend there?
I would be shocked if that hadn’t happened to me as well. At Easter one year I heard our pastor deliver a message that I had heard Chuck Swindoll preach on the radio. I wonder now, reading this post, how many of his sermons were actually other people’s sermons. Sad.
That would be “former” pastor. Not our current pastor.
Debi, that’s just awful, isn’t it? This is just thinking aloud on my part, but if some pastors (like this man) purchase every message, then when do they study and mature spiritually themselves? Something I would want in a counsellor is someone who is immersed in the Bible, you know? If I were leading an entire church, then I’d certainly need more time in the Word than the time I need just for me.
Each “flock” is unique. True, as a whole, we are basically the same, but there are issues you find in different churches at different times. I expect a pastor to be actively praying and asking for wisdom, asking for what messages to be brought when, etc.
It is conceivable that God could guide a pastor to a message brought by someone else, and that it could be used well by another man, but I would still expect that pastor to pray and pour over the scripture the message is built on, more than he did the sermon notes.
You are so right.
Actually there are some churches that do something like what you’re saying.
They have a main church and then broadcast the pastor to other locations which have a live worship band.
I hate this because it says to people that ‘I [the pastor] am the only man that can lead a church. No one else can, so you should just broadcast me everywhere.”
We forget so easily that it’s not about us and all about God. Once pastors forget this, their focus and vision is all gone.
Stuart
PS: And you’d be surprised how many pastors take other pastors messages offline. Ricky Bobby Warren at Saddleback offers his sermons to use too.
I’ve been a long-time reader of your blog, but I think this is my first comment. Your thoughts are such an inspiration to me and I pray for you and your family often. I would love to read your thoughts on the Purpose-Driven Life, as I’ve had trouble pinpointing the reason for my resistance to that, um, phenomenon.
I worked at a church where the pastor bought his sermons. Any time a member of the congregation asked “Where does Pastor XX get all his creative ideas?” the staff was told to answer “Oh, he gets ideas from everywhere…” – intimating that the sermons were, in fact, his. The fact that the sermons were purchased wasn’t the issue, it was the deception that surrounded it. (EVERY sermon was purchased… there was never, in 9 months, an original sermon). And, like you said, the gap between the seeming onstage depth and the in-person lack of wisdom – - well it was astonishing, and disappointing and in the end, I found no real evidence of God within the organization, and was fired because I ‘didn’t fit in’ (meaning, I spoke up about about these things and accused the pastor of being a fraud). It was a loving body, but the management was in horrible chaos, there was deception and financial abuse to boot. Since, I have come to realize that God’s word doesn’t need the pomp and circumstance of a fancy sermon series, it is beautiful and captivating and alive straight from the Bible, and I believe any teacher who KNOWS God’s word doesn’t have to buy another man’s sermon in order to teach it.
We went to a Willow Creek plant years ago for a few months. We would actually watch the “pastor” rehearse said pre-packaged sermons in front of a video camera to see if his delivery was effective. Wow… let the Spirit move, huh????!!!
Praying for you……
It’s interesting Debi, that your instincts were spot on about him. You must have known on some level that he was a fake. It’s nice when life offers us a window into our own intuition. Bravo – you saw the truth before the Willow Creek caper was busted wide open.
On a sad note though, it’s too bad that the internet has had such a pervasive reach even into something as sacred as church.
WC
Hi!
I just discovered this site. I can appreciate what you are saying. I am a pastor.
I do have to be honest and tell you that there have been times that I have used another preacher’s outline, but I have let it be known from the pulpit it belonged to someone else, and named whose it was. I only used it because it spoke to me, and I thought it would to the people as well.
It has been years since I did that. All the messages I preach now are ones I get from my study of Scripture. I thoroughly enjoy studying the Word of God.
It is sad to say that I know there are pastors who do what you have talked about. They say if they are going to be effective pastors to their people they do not have time to spend in study, so they “borrow” others works.
The way I feel about it. The greatest ministry the pastor has for his people is the preaching of God’s Word.
God bless you. I pray you have found a good pastor and church.
man, i keep thinking what my reactions would be if this happened here:
dissapointment, frustration, lose ‘faith’ in the pastor.
we are such friends with our pastor, he married us and is our kids godparent, that i probably would leave, i don’t know, hmmm.
glad you caught on and got out. you are right, you have too much else to worry about than a, oh, lets call him a ‘fake’ pastor.
I have felt resistance many times in my life such as another reader stated. I believe that it is the Holy Spirit revealing the worldliness and falsehood that exists in things around us. I felt resistance too for the purpose driven life. Our church read the book and did the outlines supplied with it. The problem is it mixes God with humanism and psycology. Psycology itself is based on humanism. I often sit pondering what people will answer when facing the Lord and he reveals how they mixed the two. As a new born Christian and weak in the faith I took several humanistic courses in a worldly college and spent many years away from God as a result of it’s influence. When I came back to the Lord I threw everything humanistic out of my life. This is the problem with modern day religion. It trys to mix the two instead of coming out from among them and being separate.
Oh this is so typical and sad! Been there. Glad you are one of the smart sheep that has caught on.
“My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me”
John 10:27
It is a sad tragedy that the majority of Pastors are now doing just that, downloading sermons. That stated, I must admit I am still laughing. It shouldn’t be funny, and it usually outrages me, but I can’t help but laugh at when I think of you and your daughter having that “aha” moment.
LOL…….Too Funny!
-Pastor John
Rev 18:4-5
Hi Debi just read some of your comments about preacher in a box. It is sad that pastor do that. Did you hear just in the pass weeks that what they have been doing at Willow Creek has been wrong.Check out sermonaudio.com
Thank you for this good post. I hope every preacher reads it and takes note of your disillusionment! I am a pastor who wrestles each week to know what God would have me say, and while sometimes I fail miserably in my efforts on Sunday morning, I can take consolation in the fact that I haven’t added plagiarism to my list of errors.
Dear Debi
I stumbled across your site whilst looking for Advent resources. (Thank you for your post on that by the way, it was a helpful resource).
God’s spirit touches someone through an aside comment that wasn’t part of the plan.
I thought I’d spend a few moments looking at your other posts and who you were to see if i wanted to come back from time to time.
Wow! Your honesty with your struggle(s) and experiences is refreshing, perahps moreso is your very gracious tone. Thank you for that. I’m a pastor who doesn’t even like to go back to sermons I’ve prepared previously to redo. Right now I am doing something very rare for me and actually doing a Willow Creek series. But I’ve spent more time with working up from the scripture text to make it my own than I would have in one of my usually series. And our congregation knows where it comes from.
The temptation to simply preach another’s sermon can be strong with the demands of ministry and family life. Not necessarily wrong, although your pastor in box frightens me on several levels. A box without compassion is empty indeed.
I decided early in my ministry that my congregation may not remember any one sermon I’ve preached over the years (9 years in this church by God’s grace), but they will remember how I’ve loved them.
I figure if God isn’t working in my heart through the week, I won’t have anything to preach from, let alone out of. Yet so often God meets me and there is something, and even when I think Ive blown it and perhaps the best benefit is that a few people had a good nap
I will come back and read more of your blog. I am refreshed by your honesty, and renewed by your sense of trusting in God’s hand. Yes His grace is sufficient for the day, and some days one wishes there just wasn’t so great a need for that grace.
I’ve just come through a medical problem that took two years to diagnosis and treat, very minor compared to your issues, but I have had to reflect on a lot of my expectations of myself and others and learn to lean hard into God’s grace in a new way. It hasn’t been an easy journey, but God is good.
May you know afresh that great promise, the joy of the Lord is my strength. And yes, that has very little to bubbly happy-face candy-coated Christianity. I crave a vibrant presonal faith that acknowledges hardship and walks me through it to the end.
Adios
Greg
This guy and everyone like him ought to be fired and run out of the pastoral ministry. It’s okay to borrow things from others from time to time (with credit given where credit is due) but what these guys are doing is plagiarism.
It’s lying. It’s stealing. It’s idolatrous.
Bring it to the attention of the leadership structure of the church. Immediately.
Oh man, I have such a love/hate relationship with packaged sermons. On the one hand they can be a great resource or starting point, but on the other hand they make it so easy to deliver biblical speeches rather than inspired sermons. I’ve been required to teach youth from a packaged series before, and always made it my own. The worst was a sermon that had NO biblical references. I’ve realized it takes more time to make someone else’s lesson or sermon my own, than it does to write one myself (divine inspiration perhaps?). I guess it could work if someone was simply a “teaching” pastor, like a college professor, but as many of us have seen it leads to failure in the shepherding role of a pastor.
We recently discovered that our “pastor” was buying most of his sermons and powerpoints online. I feel incredibly disillusioned and cynical to the point of, why bother to go to church at all? A true shepherd shepherding the sheep is a rare thing indeed.
I hadn’t planned to stay up this late but when I stumbled onto this blog, I couldn’t quit reading. Thank you for your open honesty and revelations. How refreshing it is to read of ALL your struggles in addition to all the things you have and are learning through this situation in your life. As God brings you to my mind, I will be praying for you and your children.
May God continue to bless you and be your ‘present help in time of need.’
lyn
Hi, Lyn …
Thanks for stopping by. Sorry I kept you up so late.
And I really appreciate the prayers … we definitely need all the prayers we can get!
Blessings,
Debi
Unfortunately, this is not a new phenomenon. My father is a Independent fundamental Baptist pastor for 49 years and is now retired. He was very abusive to his flock. The abuse he dished out at home was much worse. My father used to get most of his sermons from The Sword of the Lord paper. The Sword of the Lord had a section for just ready made sermons for pastors. Now I see the Sword of the Lord posts sermons online.
http://www.swordofthelord.com/onlinesermons/
Bless you. Your last journal entry was May 2007. How have things been for you since? How are the children?
Best wishes.
Please be gentle. PASTORS ARE PEOPLE TOO! Some of your comments are quite harsh. Until you’ve walked in a pastors shoes….. Please be gentle.
Until you’ve walked in MY shoes, you may not realize how a pastor’s “mistake” has the potential to ruin someone’s life. They need to be held to a higher level of accountability because people’s very lives are sometimes in their hands. When I was being abused at home and being told that if I just submitted to my husband more (at the risk of my life!), who was there to tell the pastor to not be so harsh or judgmental? Perhaps if this pastor had been in the Word for himself and not just buying prepared sermons, he may have been better equipped to handle the difficulties real life can present in his “flock.” Just my two bits for what it’s worth.
Oops! So sorry, I didn’t know this was about abusive husbands/pastors. You are 100% right!. Thanks for being gentle.